Inspired by comments made on Island Dog's blog in his article on Obama's speech, I thought I would write a bit about how different a conservative European is from a conservative American. Sure, there are some similarities, but, at least on the issues that dominate the American election, the differences seem to outnumber the similarities.

1. The economy

The context: In Denmark, welfare is a given. If you don't have a job, you are guaranteed money from the government. Not much, sure. But enough to get by on. The catch: You have to actively be hunting for jobs to get support. The exceptions: If you are without the means to get a job, as a result of a medical condition, you are guaranteed money. Period.

I support government hand-outs for jobless people. But I also support the pressure being exacted on the jobless to get a job. I do not belive the system we have in Denmark is creating a sub-class of dependents. I think we have a well-designed system that gives to those truly in need, while at the same time punishing those who are just lazy. And belive me. Being on welfare in Denmark is not a fun existance. You have savings? No welfare, of course. The government are able to see if you have money in the bank, and thus you will not be able to get welfare. You have a car? Sell it first. Live off the money from that, and then when that money is gone, you can get welfare, if you still qualify. You have a house? Same deal. Not a life I would contemplate, even for a second. Your spouse is applying for welfare too? Well you can both get it, but if after 6 months you are both still without a job, your welfare will be halved. No thanks. I like the system, because it allows people to exist - and nothing more.

2. The war on terror

The context: Denmark has wholeheartedly supported the war on terror from day 1. We still do. The opposition is giving the administration hell over it, but so far we have been able to dodge it. We have pulled out of Iraq, but only because the sector we were in was ready to be taken over by the Iraqis themselves. We have been constantly increasing our troops contingent in Afghanistan. Danish troops are stationed in Helmand, the hot-zone. 

I support the war on terror. I believe that the war on terror is a working means of defending Western soil against attacks from terrorists. I support continued allied intervention in Iraq. Obama wants to pull out? Please. The work there is not even half done. And when all allied troops are out, what's to stop all those bored al-Qaeda fighters from renewing their attacks against European and American interests. I know this is easy for me to say, since Denmark don't have troops in Iraq anymore. But I would actually be in favor of having danish troops there too. The work we do in Afghanistan is equally important. But boy is that long-term work. The is the area in which I truly agree with American conservatives.

3. Abortion

The context: In Denmark, abortion is legal up to the 12th week of pregnancy. And in special cases, even after. Where medical considerations apply an abortion can be carried out at any time during the pregnancy. If the pregnancy is the result of a rape, abortion can also be carried out at any time.

Now this is an issue on which not many American conservatives would agree with me. I am in favor of abortion, but on stricter terms than those that exist today. It has become the "easy way out" for Danish teens to say oops - guess I got pregnant, and then get an abortion. I have even heard about cases where a teen got 3 abortions - all because she wasn't careful. I belive in abortion being legal, but on a case by case basis. I know that would be terribly costly and hard to implement, but I am just not supporting the current system. American conservatives would use terms like "murder of innocent babies" and the like. I wont say so. I just want people to be responsible for their own actions. I strongly support abortion being legal in case of rape and medical necessity. My views on this issue are not of religious origin. Denmark is a very a-religious country. I just want the law to recognize that people must live up to their actions.

4. Gun control

The context. Guns are basically illegal to own in Denmark. Exceptions can be made for special types of weapons. I.e. if you hunt, you can get a license to buy a hunter's rifle. If you shoot in a sports club, you can get a license to buy the type of weapon that you shoot, but only after 3 years of active membership in a club. Denmark has one of the lowest rates of gun-related crimes in the world.

For a criminal to obtain a weapon in Denmark is not especially hard. A word dropped in the right bar, and for a hefty fee he will be able to buy himself a gun. Still, weapons are very rarely fired in Denmark. When they are, even if no deaths occur, it's nation wide news. Now if the average citizen was able to just in walk in off the street and get himself a gun, I believe we would have a lot more deaths in crime. People feeling threatened, and using the gun to scare other people or criminals threatening them. It's just way too many accidents waiting to happen. Guns are bad. Period. Guns in almost every home. Not that is just too scary to think about. Americans are seriously wrong here. And to twist and distort the meaning of the 2nd amendment the way American conservatives have done. If it wasn't so sad, I'd almost laugh about it. We do not agree here.

5. Oil versus inexpendable energy sources

The context. Denmark is self-sufficient in oil and natural gas. We are even  a net-exporter of oil. And still the world's largest manufaturer of wind-mills is Danish.

It only makes sense to invest hugely in long-term energy sources. With the world's oil reserves dwindling, the oil-price is going to rise even faster than it is today. The cost of extracting oil in ever harder conditions and with ever-growing pressure from environmental groups is going to make alternatives an attractive solution at some time in the future. Why not be ready for that future. When-ever someone mentions long-term energy sources, it seems t me that American conservatives are too quick to cry "environmentalist". What is so bad about wanting to secure our future. Both from an environmental perspective, but certainly also from an economic perspective. Oil is going to be hugely expensive. I don't want to depend on something as expensive as gold, for my energy needs.

 

So....there you have it. We may use the same tag, but we are really not that similar. Later today, I'll post an analysis of what makes a danish conservative, as opposed to a danish liberal.

 

Morten


Comments
on Aug 30, 2008

IN many respects Denmark is a lot more conservative than America.  Our welfare is pretty much the same as yours (the difference I suspect is in the rhetoric).  Our abortion laws are much more liberal however, and of course so are our gun laws.

Your north sea oil fields make you a potential member of OPEC (thank you for not joining) , but America does have many sites for alternatives too.  Just not enough.  The sheer size the of the country makes some of the alternatives just not feasible.  And of course you have the hypocritical bunch who demand alternatives - just not in their backyard (NIMBY).

Thanks for posting.  A fresh outside look at ourselves is always educational.

on Aug 30, 2008

Very interesting, thanks for the insight into your views+your country! As a 'UK conservative' quite a few things are similar, although I (personally) disagree to some extent on some of the points:

The economy - I agree that welfare is necessary, and should exist to ensure that people can survive, yet at the same time be tied to work, such that you will only get welfare if you are trying to work but are unable to (e.g. if unemployed you get benefits for several months I think, but once you've rejected 3 job offers from the unemployment agency you lose your benefits). In the UK we have the problem though of benefits creating a welfare trap where you can end up earning barely any more (not technically a pure trap where you earn less, but still close) from working as you can on benefits, which is certainly not a desirable situation. On more general issues I feel that the government is too large and am against the 'tax and spend' philosophy of our current government, prefering a lower tax economy. Compared to the US we have a much higher tax burden, with higher personal tax and higher corporate tax levels. We do however have a better welfare system in return, with the NHS providing most healthcare for free (albeit not to a great standard).

The war on terror - personally I think we were wrong to invade Iraq, but now that we're there we should only leave when it's relatively stable (i.e. isn't going to collapse like a house of cards the moment we've left). Wrt afghanistan I think we were right to invade+should do all we can to support the government against the Taleban. As for the UK itself the policy has generally been in strong support of the US's in both Iraq and Afghanistan. The main opposition (who had supported the war) attacked the government over how it mislead both parliament and the public over the case for war, but the only (main) party that has strongly opposed the war is the smallest of the three, typically getting about 17% in polls, and with our electoral system translating into a much smaller voting power percentage (at a guess 5% or so, I can't be bothered to go and look it up ). As for the public they've generally been strongly opposed to the war, although it's not a political issue here anywhere near like it is in the US - all three parties agree on keeping troops in Iraq for the time being, with the disagreements then being on how quickly to bring them out (the party that opposed the war wants a strict timetable, while the others aren't so bothered, and more support a phased withdrawal assuming conditions on the ground are appropriate).

Abortion - in the UK we have one of the most barbaric (IMO) abortion policies in the world, worse than both the US and Denmark - I think you can get an abortion up to 24 weeks, so basically you can abort a child even when it can survive outside of the mother. Attempts to reduce this limit to 20 or even 22 weeks were defeated, and parliament is now looking at possibly even making abortions easier to obtain. Personally I think abortion shouldn't be available except for where the mothers health is at risk (i.e. risk of death or severe injury), or rape. At the very least the limit should be much lower than it currently is.

Gun control - here we are both the same, in that you aren't allowed to own a gun (except if licenced, I'm not too sure what the criteria is for that but it's fairly strict I think), and any shootings resulting in injury or death tend to make the national news. I also agree that this is the best policy, since although if you legalise gun control for the general population it allows citizens to protect themselves better, it also greatly increases the likelihood of shootings taking place - both accidental, as you mentioned, criminal (easier to obtain a gun, and also a greater temptation to resort to crime+use a gun if you own one), and the violence of crimes themselves (to give an extreme example, if robbing a place, if you know the owner is highly likely to own a gun and he wakes up you're going to be much more likely to shoot him than if you know the owner is highly unlikely to own a gun. True, if you think they have a gun you'd be less likely to rob in the first place, so you likely end up with a tradeoff between more violent crimes and fewer 'less-violent' ones). One thing I'm puzzled about though - is opposing gun control conservative or liberal? Technically being in favour of people owning guns is liberal (giving more rights to people), but it's deemed a right wing (i.e. conservative/republican) view to be in favour of allowing people to own guns.

Renewable energy - you put us to shame here. We're trying to get some renewable energy, and have hefty taxes on oil, but we could be doing better. Compared to the US we are several steps ahead though, with both the aforementioned measures (e.g. high taxes on oil, some subsidies for renewable energy) and that all the main political parties are unaminous in recognition of global warming, and the need to take measures to stop it.

on Aug 30, 2008

In the UK we have the problem though of benefits creating a welfare trap where you can end up earning barely any more (not technically a pure trap where you earn less, but still close)

We have a similar situation in the US, demonstrating the problem with setting the benefits level so close to entry level earnings, but the point that one must go off the dole after a defined time when work is available blunts the impact of that.  For too long here, the incentives were all weighted to staying on the dole - why work if you can get paid more to do nothing than for an entry level job?

on Aug 30, 2008

Asmodean -

Thanks for the information.  We are closer in our positions (as conservatives) than you think.

The right to bear arms here is a reflection of our differing histories, more than anything else.  The size of Denmark and it's ability to more closely monitor weapons traffic are probably two reasons fewer criminals have/use guns (you'll have to tell me whether that is a fair statement).  I also think you probably have fewer criminals in Denmark, fewer immigrants from Central American gangs, etc.  And ordinary law-abiding gun owners in the US rarely commit crimes with them.  I can also see how a gun going off, in a country not supposed to have any, would be 'national' news.

Again, thanks for posting.

on Aug 31, 2008

The only twisting of the second amendment are from those that want to turn my country into yours.  Guns are a weapon that has always been ment to kill people.  The hunting reason is the farce, earily Americans TRAPPED or raised their meat, hunting was sport even then.

When it comes down to it an armed people are more free then their unarmed counter parts. 

on Aug 31, 2008

The hunting reason is the farce, earily Americans TRAPPED or raised their meat, hunting was sport even then.

Really?  Hmm,  I guess we have to rewrite the history of Jamestown.

on Aug 31, 2008

Dr Guy
Really?  Hmm,  I guess we have to rewrite the history of Jamestown.

Jamestown didnt have much wildlife in the near area, neither hunting nor trapping was good there. They had to trade with indians to get much of their food.  Sure there was hunting but they did it out of desperation. 

A lot of the very early colonists would have tried hunting first, cause they did it as sport in their homeland and didnt think about the cost of hunting.

on Sep 02, 2008

Jamestown didnt have much wildlife in the near area, neither hunting nor trapping was good there. They had to trade with indians to get much of their food. Sure there was hunting but they did it out of desperation.

Go back and learn history 101.  And dont confuse the pilgrims with Jamestown.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/30/AR2006033000786.html

"The lush forests held abundant game"

Just one of thousands of hits at google.

on Sep 02, 2008

maudlin27
One thing I'm puzzled about though - is opposing gun control conservative or liberal? Technically being in favour of people owning guns is liberal (giving more rights to people), but it's deemed a right wing (i.e. conservative/republican) view to be in favour of allowing people to own guns.

Isn't that because in U.S. politics the term liberal has diverted from it's original meaning? The traditional meaning of the word liberal is as you say less government control of people's rights and actions, but it seems to me that in the U.S is has come to mean "someone of left wing oppinions".

Morten

on Sep 02, 2008

Isn't that because in U.S. politics the term liberal has diverted from it's original meaning? The traditional meaning of the word liberal is as you say less government control of people's rights and actions, but it seems to me that in the U.S is has come to mean "someone of left wing oppinions".

You are correct.  The american political system cannot be compared to European ones on a name basis.  It will cause a lot of confusion.